Legislature(2005 - 2006)SENATE FINANCE 532

03/24/2006 09:00 AM Senate FINANCE


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09:05:37 AM Start
09:06:56 AM SB284
09:08:23 AM Electronic Commerce Pilot Program Overview Presentation
11:17:39 AM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ SB 305 OIL AND GAS PRODUCTION TAX TELECONFERENCED
<Pending Referral>
<Above Bill Hearing Canceled>
+= SB 284 SENTENCING FOR ALCOHOL-RELATED CRIMES TELECONFERENCED
Moved CSSB 284(FIN) Out of Committee
Electronic Commerce Pilot Program
Overview <Testimony by Invitation Only>
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
                            MINUTES                                                                                           
                    SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                  
                         March 24, 2006                                                                                       
                           9:05 a.m.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                              
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Lyda  Green  convened   the  meeting  at  approximately                                                               
9:05:37 AM.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lyda Green, Co-Chair                                                                                                    
Co-Chair Wilken, Co-Chair                                                                                                       
Senator Bunde, Vice-Chair                                                                                                       
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
Senator Bert Stedman                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Also   Attending:  DAVE   STANCLIFF,   Staff   to  Senator   Gene                                                             
Therriault; SCOTT  HAWKINS, General Manager, Alaska  Supply Chain                                                               
Integrators  LLC;  BARRY  JACKSON,  Procurement  and  Contracting                                                               
Manager,  Alaska  Supply  Chain Integrators  LLC;  DON  PETERSON,                                                               
Senior Manager, Mikunda Cottrell  Accounting & Consulting (MCAC),                                                               
VERN  JONES,  Chief  Procurement  Officer,  Division  of  General                                                               
Services,  Department of  Administration;  ART CHANCE,  Director,                                                               
Labor  Relations,  Division  of Labor  Relations,  Department  of                                                               
Administration; MARK  O'BRIEN, Chief Contracts  Officer, Division                                                               
of   Contracting,   Procurement   and  Appeals,   Department   of                                                               
Transportation and Public Facilities                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Attending  via Teleconference:  From an  offnet site:  Dr. OLIVER                                                             
HEDGEPETH, Logistics Professor, University of Alaska                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY INFORMATION                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SB 284-SENTENCING FOR ALCOHOL-RELATED CRIMES                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The bill reported from Committee.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Electronic Commerce Pilot Program Overview Presentation                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The Committee  conducted an oversight  hearing in regards  to the                                                               
State's Electronic Commerce Pilot  Program. Remarks were provided                                                               
from  representatives of  Alaska Supply  Chain Integrators,  LLC;                                                               
Mikunda Cottrell  Accounting & Consulting; a  logistics professor                                                               
with the University of Alaska;  the Division of General Services,                                                               
Department of  Administration; the  Division of  Labor Relations,                                                               
Department of  Administration; and  the Division  of Contracting,                                                               
Procurement and Appeals, Department  of Transportation and Public                                                               
Facilities.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 284(JUD)                                                                                            
     "An Act relating to sentencing for the commission of a                                                                     
     felony while under the influence of alcohol."                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This was the  second hearing for this bill in  the Senate Finance                                                               
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green  noted that CS  SB 284(FIN),  Version 24-LS0581\L,                                                               
was before the Committee.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DAVE  STANCLIFF, Staff  to Senator  Gene  Therriault, the  bill's                                                               
sponsor, was available to answer Committee questions.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
There being none,  Co-Chair Wilken moved to report  the bill from                                                               
Committee  with   individual  recommendations   and  accompanying                                                               
fiscal notes.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Without  objection, CS  SB 284(FIN)  was REPORTED  from Committee                                                               
accompanied  by previous  indeterminate fiscal  note #1  from the                                                               
Office   of  Public   Advocacy,  Department   of  Administration;                                                               
indeterminate fiscal note  #2 from the Public  Defender Agency; a                                                               
new  indeterminate  fiscal note  dated  March  8, 2006  from  the                                                               
Alaska Court  System; and a  new indeterminate fiscal  note dated                                                               
March 23, 2006 from the Department of Corrections.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:06:56 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
^Electronic Commerce Pilot Program Overview Presentation                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Electronic Commerce Pilot Program                                                                                          
     Overview Presentation                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:08:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SCOTT  HAWKINS, President  and  Chief  Operating Officer,  Alaska                                                               
Supply  Chain Integrators,  LLC (ASCI),  the State's  procurement                                                               
agent,  thanked   the  Committee  for  holding   this  "oversight                                                               
hearing"  on   the  status  of  the   Electronic  Commerce  Pilot                                                               
Procurement Program (PPP)  to date. The findings  of a Department                                                               
of Administration  "State of Alaska Division  of General Services                                                               
Cost  of Goods  Analysis"  (Study) [copy  on  file], prepared  by                                                               
Mikunda Cottrell  Accounting and  Consulting, would  be addressed                                                               
in  conjunction with  ASCI's "insights  and  perspectives on  the                                                               
Program" as  depicted in  an ASCI handout  titled "ASCI  State e-                                                               
Commerce  and  Supply  Chain   Management  Program  An  Important                                                               
Precedent",  [copy on  file] dated  March 23,  2006. Mr.  Hawkins                                                               
reviewed the ASCI handout as follows.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Page 2                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Presentation Overview                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
        · About ASCI                                                                                                            
        · State Pilot Procurement Program:                                                                                      
               *Background                                                                                                      
               *MCAC/State Cost of Goods Study                                                                                  
               *Overall Performance                                                                                             
        · Why It Matters                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins   overviewed  the  points  the   presentation  would                                                               
address.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 3                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     ASCI Corporate Profile                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
        · Established 1999                                                                                                      
        · Alaska LLC; Majority Alaskan Owned                                                                                    
        · Employees: ~ 160                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins noted  that this "young" company  is headquartered in                                                               
Anchorage and is primarily owned by Alaskans.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Page 4                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     What ASCI Does                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
        · Full Range of Supply Chain and Related Technology                                                                     
          Services                                                                                                              
        · Overview at www.asci4materials.com                                                                                    
        · Other Services:                                                                                                       
               *Maintenance planning                                                                                            
               *Catalog data control and conversion                                                                             
               *Web site & web tool development                                                                                 
               *Inventory optimization services                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins reviewed  the information on this  page. The majority                                                               
of ASCI's  "supply chain management  services are very  broad and                                                               
complete  full cycle  services" primarily  in support  of Alaskan                                                               
companies. ASCI began  its operations in 1999  with 35 employees.                                                               
Today it employs  160 people with the anticipation  of having 175                                                               
employees by year-end.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Page 6                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Who We Serve                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     BP Alaska                                                                                                                  
        · Full cycle supply chain management                                                                                    
        · Web technology                                                                                                        
        · Maintenance planning and special projects                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Exxon Mobil                                                                                                                
        · Web technology                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Shell E&P                                                                                                                  
        · Web technology                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     State of Alaska                                                                                                            
        · Began in 2004                                                                                                         
        · Full cycle supply chain management                                                                                    
        · Web technology                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Neal and Massey                                                                                                            
        · Trinidad Joint Venture                                                                                                
        · Full cycle SCM                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins   overviewed  ASCI's  customer  base;   its  largest                                                               
customer  is British  Petroleum  (BP). While  ASCI was  initially                                                               
structured to  provide services required  by BP, it  has expanded                                                               
to providing Internet technology  services to other oil companies                                                               
and,  approximately one  and a  half years  ago, began  providing                                                               
supply  chain management  services  to the  State  of Alaska.  It                                                               
recently established a joint venture  in Trinidad in anticipation                                                               
of providing  services to entities  involved with  that country's                                                               
developing oil field.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Page 7                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Performance Based Approach                                                                                                 
     1. Balanced Performance Scorecard                                                                                          
     2. Heavy Emphasis on Measurements                                                                                          
          - Strong analytical capabilities                                                                                      
          - Drives process management, improvement                                                                              
     3. Vendor Scorecard Management                                                                                             
          - Web based tools                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  stressed the importance  ASCI places  on performance                                                               
and performance  measurements. The  primary evaluation tool  is a                                                               
measurement-based scorecard  "with our customers".  The company's                                                               
"profitability  is  tied  to our  measurable  performance"  on  a                                                               
variety  of  performance  indicators,  including  cost  of  goods                                                               
measurement. Due  to the emphasis placed  on accountability, ASCI                                                               
has  "very  very  strong analytical  capabilities".  Due  to  the                                                               
emphasis  on  this  structure,  it is  doubtful  there  are  many                                                               
companies in the world that  could match "the amount of expertise                                                               
that we  have developed around  measurements of the  supply chain                                                               
management  process".  No entity  in  Alaska  could compete  with                                                               
ASCI's expertise in cost of goods measurements in this field.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:12:18 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins shared  that ASCI  also  "intensively" measures  the                                                               
vendor  industry.  To that  point,  the  narrow scope  of  ASCI's                                                               
procurements for the  State of Alaska has  limited this endeavor.                                                               
However, in  its work for  BP and other entities,  ASCI maintains                                                               
scorecards  on its  "top  50 vendors".  Those  vendors also  have                                                               
internal  "balanced scorecard"  performance  measures, which  are                                                               
reviewed  regularly  with ASCI  in  an  effort to  manage  vendor                                                               
performance. The ability to manage  vendor performance is another                                                               
of   the  performance   indicators  ASCI   adheres  to.   Vendors                                                               
appreciate    the     "collaborative    performance    management                                                               
relationship".                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 8                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     SOA "Pilot" Program                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     [ASCI provided  the cost comparison  chart depicted  on this                                                               
     page to  the State in  its 2004 proposal. The  data projects                                                               
     that  ASCI's  2006  services  would  produce  a  savings  of                                                               
     $251,882  or 38  percent  over 2003  State  of Alaska  (SOA)                                                               
     Procurement and Warehouse Operations.]                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
        · HB 313, 4 agencies, Cost Study, RFP Process                                                                           
       · Cost savings on administration only, not prices                                                                        
        · Scope: goods and services                                                                                             
        · Scalable platform for expansion.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins reminded  that HB  313  authorized PPP  in 2003.  It                                                               
pertained  to  four  agencies, two  departments,  and  two  other                                                               
instrumentalities of  the State.  The Request For  Proposal (RFP)                                                               
process  proposed by  ASCI had  been  adopted. The  scope of  PPP                                                               
included both goods and services,  thus expanding ASCI's scope of                                                               
business from  its previous  concentration on  goods contracting.                                                               
PPP also mandated the "installation"  of an expandable e-Commerce                                                               
program.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 9                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Program Framework                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
        · Pilot agency: DOT/PF Southeast Region                                                                                 
        · 11 person operation (12 w/ mgr)                                                                                       
        · Full e-Commerce system installed, integrated w/ 2                                                                     
          systems, customized, trained                                                                                          
        · Two years operating time to sunset                                                                                    
        · Emphasis on overhead cost savings, staff reductions                                                                   
          (became 6-7 person operation)                                                                                         
        · One-day operational transition                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins  reviewed the  information  on  this page.  The  RFP                                                               
emphasized overhead  cost savings; little emphasis  was placed on                                                               
the cost  of goods. Additional  cost of goods language  was added                                                               
by request of  ASCI, as they viewed the  original emphasis placed                                                               
on that element as insufficient.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  recounted there  being a  one-day transition  in the                                                               
implementation  of   PPP.  Existing  SOA   procurement  personnel                                                               
departed on July first and  ASCI employees assumed responsibility                                                               
on July second.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Page 10                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Some Basic Challenges                                                                                                      
     a. Location and workforce (Juneau)                                                                                         
     b. "Hard" transition (peak season)                                                                                         
     c. Specialized nature of AMHS customer                                                                                     
     d. Multiple computer systems to integrate                                                                                  
     e. Short time frame to achieve cost savings                                                                                
     f. Extremely limited transition assistance                                                                                 
     g. Quarterly "benchmark audits"                                                                                            
     h. Undisclosed baseline staffing                                                                                           
     i. Disconnect between the representations and the reality                                                                  
          of "Administrative support"                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  stated that  of the  numerous challenges  ASCI faced                                                               
during its transition  into PPP, having to  establish a workforce                                                               
in  Juneau   was  very  challenging,  particularly   as  ASCI  is                                                               
headquartered in  Anchorage. The  July transition time  was quite                                                               
hectic specifically as  that is one of the busiest  times for the                                                               
Alaska  Marine  Highway  System  (AMHS),  which  is  one  of  the                                                               
entities in the Program.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins also noted the  SOA is a "very specialized customer",                                                               
as evidenced  by the fact that  AMHS needs are very  unique. ASCI                                                               
was on  a "vertical learning curve  in the busiest season  of the                                                               
year". The  computer information technology (IT)  interfaces were                                                               
very   complex  to   develop.  Such   things  as   integrating  a                                                               
maintenance program  and a password  validation program  added to                                                               
that complexity.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins   affirmed  that  while   many  of   the  transition                                                               
challenges were  known as they  were specified in the  RFP, there                                                               
were  some  surprises.  The  RFP  impressed  how  supportive  and                                                               
committed the  Administration was  of the Program.  However, when                                                               
ASCI  assumed  its   role  with  the  Southeast   Region  of  the                                                               
Department  of   Transportation  and  Public   Facilities,  "that                                                               
commitment did  not appear  to extend  to the  operating agency".                                                               
Further discussion on this issue would be forthcoming.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:17:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde  pointed  out that,  "change  is  challenging  and                                                               
threatening for us  all". However, he asked  whether Mr. Hawkin's                                                               
remarks  were  to imply  "the  change  was resisted  and  perhaps                                                               
structured  to  make  it  difficult  for  your  operation  to  be                                                               
successful".                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins responded  "yes". A combination of  things might have                                                               
influenced  the situation.  As PPP  was new  to the  State, "some                                                               
innocent  but not  particularly helpful  decisions and  judgments                                                               
that  were  made,  made  it  extremely  difficult."  Upon  ASCI's                                                               
"arrival at  the agency,  the misjudgments  gave way  to outright                                                               
hostility".                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins  informed the  Committee  the  Anchorage Daily  News                                                               
newspaper recently printed an article  [copy not provided] on the                                                               
Study that  had been conducted  by the Anchorage firm  of Mikunda                                                               
Cottrell  Accounting  and  Consulting  (MCAC) on  behalf  of  the                                                               
Division  of  General  Services,  Department  of  Administration.                                                               
ASCI's  procurement  contractor  manager,  Barry  Jackson,  would                                                               
provide ASCI's  and another independent consulting  firm's "view"                                                               
of that study.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:19:16 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 11                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Cost of Goods Study                                                                                                        
        · MCAC reported 9% increase                                                                                             
        · Based on "sample" of 167 transactions matched through                                                                 
          manual data sifting                                                                                                   
        · Summed unit prices of items, compared sums                                                                            
        · Attempted to ignore freight                                                                                           
        · Inflation not considered                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
BARRY  JACKSON,  Procurement   and  Contracting  Manager,  Alaska                                                               
Supply Chain Integrators,  stated the MCAC Study  reported a nine                                                               
percent  increase in  the  cost  of items  purchased  by ASCI  as                                                               
compared  to  the  cost  of  identical  items  purchased  by  SOA                                                               
procurement  staff. That  was based  on  a sample  of "only"  167                                                               
transactions  out of  more than  40,000  transactions "that  were                                                               
matched  through manual  data  sifting. The  unit  prices of  the                                                               
items that  were selected  were summed  up to  a total  and those                                                               
sums were compared  between the State's former  buyers and ASCI's                                                               
approach".                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jackson  noted the  Study  specified  "the desire  to  avoid                                                               
freight costs as an issue".  In addition, while acknowledging its                                                               
importance,  inflation was  also  not considered  in the  Study's                                                               
conclusions.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 12                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Two Independent Reviews                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
        · Altman Rogers and Co., Certified Public Accountants                                                                   
          Reviewed For Errors, Comparability, Quantity                                                                          
               Weighting,     Price adjustments, Freight Terms,                                                                 
               Overall Validity                                                                                                 
        · Northern Economics, Inc.                                                                                              
          Reviewed Methodology, Statistical Soundness,                                                                          
               Inflation Adjustment                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jackson  recounted  that  after   reviewing  the  Study  and                                                               
determining  there  were  inaccuracies, ASCI  conducted  its  own                                                               
analysis. When  ASCI "attempted"  to discuss various  issues with                                                               
the State, they were informed  that any discussion about the MCAC                                                               
Study would  only occur  after ASCI "hired  its own  experts" and                                                               
conducted "their own studies".                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:21:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde asked  who with  the SOA  had informed  ASCI "that                                                               
they chose not to cooperate".                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jackson  communicated  that  this directive  came  from  two                                                               
individuals: Mark  O'Brien with the Department  of Transportation                                                               
and Public Facilities and Vern  Jones, Chief Procurement Officer,                                                               
Department of Administration.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
9:21:51 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde asked  whether the  reason for  their not  seeking                                                               
"further clarification" was disclosed.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jackson  disclosed  the  stated reason  as  being,  "out  of                                                               
fairness" to  MCAC, ASCI must  conduct its own  study. Therefore,                                                               
ASCI hired Altman, Rogers &  Co. Certified Public Accountants and                                                               
Northern  Economics Inc.  The companies'  review responsibilities                                                               
were outlined.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Page 13 Conclusions of Reviews                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
       · MCAC/State Study Found Invalid and Uncorrectable                                                                       
        · Identified At Least 9 Critical Deficiencies                                                                           
          *Critical Clerical/Invoice Errors (ARC)                                                                               
          *Critical Item Comparison Errors (ARC)                                                                                
          *Failure To Use Equal Freight Comparisons (ARC)                                                                       
       *Failure To Treat Alaska Vendor Freight Correctly                                                                        
               (ARC)                                                                                                            
       *Failure To Use Actual Purchased Quantities (ARC)                                                                        
          *Failure To Adjust For Inflation (NE)                                                                                 
          *Failure To Achieve a Random Sample (NE)                                                                              
          *Failure to Use Statistics in Any Way (NE)                                                                            
          *Invalid Extrapolation Of Data (ARC, NE)                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson discussed the conclusions  of Altman, Rogers & Co and                                                               
Northern Economics  Inc. reviews outlined  on this page.  Some of                                                               
the  items being  compared were  not identical  and some  did not                                                               
include  "equal freight  comparisons", as  the price  of an  item                                                               
purchased by ASCI might have  included freight while the price of                                                               
the same item purchased by SOA did not.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson  also questioned the  comparisons of  items purchased                                                               
through  Alaska  vendors,  as, oftentimes,  the  freight  charges                                                               
included in  their prices  were not  properly accounted  for when                                                               
compared  to  outside  vendors. Furthermore,  there  was  concern                                                               
about  the actual  consideration  of unit  price costs.  Quantity                                                               
considerations  are "important":  were  ASCI to  negotiate a  one                                                               
dollar per unit  purchase price and SOA a two  dollar unit price,                                                               
ASCI would  generate a  savings of  one dollar  on a  single item                                                               
purchase. However,  were ten units  purchased, the  savings would                                                               
be ten dollars.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jackson  was  surprised  the  MCAC  Study  did  not  include                                                               
inflation  adjustments; particularly  as procurement  comparisons                                                               
included items purchased up to 27 months apart.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson stated the MCAC  Study did not include statistics "in                                                               
any  way" even  though  the Study  "required statistically  valid                                                               
sample pools".                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson expressed  concern in regard to  the extrapolation of                                                               
data  as the  167 goods  and  services items,  which amounted  to                                                               
several  thousand  dollars,  were  "extrapolated to  a  spend  of                                                               
eleven  million  dollars". Since  the  MCAC  Study only  included                                                               
goods,  "a  sizeable  portion of  that  extrapolation  is  simply                                                               
invalid".                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 14                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Impact of the Errors                                                                                                       
        · Using MCAC's Invalid Methods, But With Known Errors                                                                   
          Corrected/Excluded:                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
         *ASCI Saved 3.6 % ($244,800) On Costs Of Goods                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
        · ASCI Saved State Additional $187,000 On Procurement                                                                   
          Operations                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
        · Total Savings To State: $431,800                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson  specified that when  ASCI corrected "as much  as" it                                                               
could of MCAC's  invalid methodology, a cost of  goods savings of                                                               
3.6 percent  resulted as opposed  to the MCAC  determination that                                                               
ASCI lost the  State "a million dollars". This  combined with the                                                               
savings  generated by  ASCI's administration  of PPP  indicated a                                                               
total savings  of $431,800. He  reiterated that even  this should                                                               
not be considered "a valid number",  as it was based on an effort                                                               
to correct the invalidities of the MCAC Study.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson declared  that one of several reasons  the MCAC Study                                                               
was "so bad" was because  the Study was "manipulated". To support                                                               
this  position, he  read excerpts  of an  August 25,  2006 letter                                                               
[copy  on  file] he  had  received  from Tom  Mayer,  Contracting                                                               
Officer,   Division   of    General   Services,   Department   of                                                               
Administration, in response to questions he had asked.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Does the State yet know exactly how MCAC intends to                                                                        
     determine a sample size that will be statistically valid?                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
        · No, the state does not know how this will be                                                                          
          determined. As professionals in the field, MCAC will                                                                  
          independently  determine a  statistically valid  sample                                                               
          size.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Does the State know how MCAC will determine the                                                                            
     constituents of the sample and maintain statistical                                                                        
     validity?                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
        · No, MCAC will determine the samples and create a                                                                      
          statistically valid pools.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Will the report include alternative credible explanations                                                                  
     for the report result?                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
        · The analysis report will be created and developed by                                                                  
          MCAC.  However,  as  indicated  in  the  meeting  notes                                                               
          referenced above,  MCAC is aware  of variables  such as                                                               
          differing quantities, delivery  dates, requirement time                                                               
          frames, and  price increases in  the market  place. The                                                               
          state  also   discussed  the   application  of   a  CPI                                                               
          adjustment  or   other  price  adjustment   indices  in                                                               
          appropriate circumstances.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Will the report include a discussion of potential market                                                                   
     conditions and other factors that could affect the results,                                                                
     for each item selected for inclusion in the report?                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
        · Report development is the responsibility of MCAC.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
9:29:05 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jackson interpreted  the Department's  responses to  clearly                                                               
indicate they  would allow MCAC  to manage the Study;  "the State                                                               
would have little to do or say with it".                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson conveyed  ASCI's reaction to the MCAC  Study was that                                                               
"several things were missing from  it". MCAC "clearly" did not do                                                               
the things  identified in Mr.  Mayer's letter or as  specified in                                                               
the RFP establishing the Study contract.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson  initially thought ASCI  was unaware of  changes made                                                               
to  the contract.  Thus,  the Division  of  General Services  was                                                               
asked to provide  further information in that regard.  A stack of                                                               
paper consisting  of 1,040 pages "of  communications between MCAC                                                               
and the  State" was displayed  as the response to  that question.                                                               
Not  "exactly   what  you  would   expect  from   an  independent                                                               
evaluation".                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jackson  described  the  communications:  "the  Division  of                                                               
General   Services  (DGS)   directed   the   consultant  to   use                                                               
methodologies  and  calculations  invented by  General  Services;                                                               
they  allowed the  consultant to  avoid using  certain repetitive                                                               
data such as liquor and beer  because it was too hard to compare;                                                               
DGS managed a narrative discussion  of the Study in certain ways;                                                               
DGS committed certain errors of  omission by not requiring things                                                               
that they said they were  going to require." Through this manner,                                                               
"DGS  actively  managed  the  results   toward  an  outcome  that                                                               
coincidentally  disfavored ASCI".  The implication  was that  DGS                                                               
was  interested in  including  things that  "raised  the cost  of                                                               
goods  conclusions" and  omitted things  that could  have lowered                                                               
those conclusions.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson  noted there  being additional  factors such  as "bad                                                               
will".                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:32:44 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
In order to further explain  this remark, Mr. Jackson shared that                                                               
he had retired  from the State DGS after 30  years of employment.                                                               
During his  career with DGS,  he was responsible for  actions "to                                                               
improve  the efficiency"  of the  Division, including  developing                                                               
programs to  automate the purchasing  system. He had  worked with                                                               
Vern Jones, DGS's Chief Procurement  Officer. After retiring from                                                               
DGS, he worked  as a programmer for Resource Data.  It was during                                                               
this time  the RFP for  this Program was released.  Resource Data                                                               
asked him to  assist ASCI in their effort to  respond to the RFP.                                                               
Subsequently, he  worked as a  consultant to ASCI  before joining                                                               
them  fulltime,  as  the  objectives  of  the  Pilot  Procurement                                                               
Program were "near and dear to my heart".                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson  credited his employment  with DGS as the  reason SOA                                                               
employees "dealt" with  him "more candidly" than  they might have                                                               
dealt  with others.  To substantiate  his "bad  will" remark,  he                                                               
shared  that during  a conversation  with Mark  O'Brien with  the                                                               
Department  of Transportation  and  Public  Facilities (DOT),  he                                                               
asked Mr. O'Brien  "how DOT had measured cost of  goods on itself                                                               
in the past".  The response was "we didn't, we  never have, and I                                                               
don't  expect we  ever will".  Thus, Mr.  Jackson questioned  why                                                               
this was  considered important  in regards  to ASCI.  Mr. O'Brien                                                               
responded  that Mr.  Hawkins'  testimony  before the  Legislature                                                               
"that  his program  could save  more money  than State  employees                                                               
could on the  cost of goods … hurt our  feelings. Because of that                                                               
… we're going to hold his feet to the fire."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:36:23 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson interpreted  this as "bad will". Similar  but "not as                                                               
blatant"  discussions  occurred  with Vern  Jones.  Such  actions                                                               
would  undermine  the  "promises"   Scott  Hawkins  made  to  the                                                               
Legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:37:26 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson stated that forcing  ASCI "to spend tens of thousands                                                               
of dollars" to develop its own study  in order to talk to DGS was                                                               
further evidence of bad will. That discussion has yet to occur.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson opined  that another factor in the  discussion is one                                                               
of "incompetence."  He continued, "the folks  in General Services                                                               
are  seasoned pros  who  knew better.  They  failed to  challenge                                                               
their expert. It's  beyond comprehension that they  would allow a                                                               
report like  this to get  out with no adjustments  for inflation,                                                               
without   dealing   with   freight  inequalities,   and   leaving                                                               
quantities out of the picture. They  knew better and yet they let                                                               
it happen."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson determined that, due  to "inexperience" the State did                                                               
not know what  they were doing, in the sense  that "the State has                                                               
never  and  would  never  try  to measure  its  savings  in  this                                                               
manner".                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson recalled  the State having measured  "its own savings                                                               
in entirely  different way. That  method virtually never  shows a                                                               
loss in procurements".                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins remarked  "this brings  us back  to the  question of                                                               
overall performance".                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
9:39:21 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  reaffirmed his testimony  "that there  is tremendous                                                               
cost of goods  savings potential in the  program". However, those                                                               
savings   could  not   occur  simply   by  changing   procurement                                                               
personnel. "Full deployment of all  of the infrastructure that is                                                               
designed  to deliver  that  cost of  goods  savings" must  occur.                                                               
Absent  the ability  to combine  volumes with  other agencies,  a                                                               
small  procurement office,  particularly when  dealing with  such                                                               
entities as the AMHS which  has specialized purchases from single                                                               
source vendors,  would require  additional time  to show  cost of                                                               
goods savings. The ability to  develop catalogs and secure vendor                                                               
agreements would be difficult to  accomplish in a short period of                                                               
time, particularly  under "an  RFP that  is designed  to maximize                                                               
administrative overhead  cost savings". The mechanics  of PPP are                                                               
not "designed to deliver cost of goods savings".                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins   stated  that  cost   of  goods   comparisons,  the                                                               
information  gleamed from  reviewing  the MCAC  Study, and  other                                                               
data, the indication is that ASCI  "is doing about as well, maybe                                                               
a little better than" its SOA predecessors.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins praised the knowledge  possessed by ASCI in the field                                                               
of  cost of  goods  savings. Its  professional procurement  staff                                                               
delivers "millions  of dollars" of  cost of goods savings  to its                                                               
customer base each year.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Page 15                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Performance Categories                                                                                                     
     1. Cost of Operations                                                                                                      
     2. Workload Comparison                                                                                                     
     3. Processing Time                                                                                                         
     4. Alaska Vendor Usage                                                                                                     
     5. Cost of Goods                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins  opined  that  ASCI is  "the  most  scrutinized  and                                                               
measured procurement  office in the  history" of the  State. ASCI                                                               
is   subject  to   a  DGS   quarterly  measurement   and  metrics                                                               
performance   standard  consisting   of   the  five   performance                                                               
categories reflected on this page.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Page 16                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     [The  three charts  on  this page  compare  the labor  costs                                                               
     experienced by ASCI in 2005  to those experienced by the SOA                                                               
     in FY 2004;  the labor costs per purchase order  for the SOA                                                               
     in FY 2004 to those of  ASCI in FY 2005; and procurement and                                                               
     warehouse Operations Staffing of SOA  in FY 2004 to ASCI for                                                               
     2005.]                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     In calendar  year 2005,  ASCI invoiced  the State  of Alaska                                                               
     $125,000  less than  it had  spend on  staffing in  FY 2004.                                                               
     This  is a  cost  reduction  of 20%,  and  does not  include                                                               
     reduced   office   space   needs,   telephones,   computers,                                                               
     supplies, etc.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     ASCI  uses   4.5  people  to  do   procurement  office  work                                                               
     previously done by 8 - not including the previous manager.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     In 2Q FY 2006 (calendar  4Q '05), purchasing workload was up                                                               
     sharply  with   no  staff  increase.   This  put   cost  per                                                               
     transaction  40%  lower than  2Q  FY  2004, indicating  very                                                               
     strong program expansion economics.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Data  Sources:  State  quarterly "benchmark  audits",  State                                                               
     baseline data, ASCI invoice data.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:41:49 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins reviewed the information on this page. Staff costs                                                                  
per transaction have decreased under ASCI from $85 to $51 per                                                                   
purchase order line: a 40 percent reduction.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
9:42:30 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 17                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Workload Comparison - Calendar 2005                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     Purchase Orders and Warehouse Issue Transactions                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     [This  graph depicts  Calendar  year  2005 workload  percent                                                               
     increases from  FY 04  on a  quarterly basis.  First quarter                                                               
     increase was  15 percent, second  quarter was  five percent,                                                               
     third quarter was 12 percent;  fourth quarter was 24 percent                                                               
     for an average increase of 13 percent.]                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins communicated  that ASCI has no  control over workload                                                               
levels.  "The work  comes to  us." The  information substantiates                                                               
the  fact  that ASCI  has  been  able  to manage  the  increasing                                                               
workload.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Page 18                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Requisition Process Time Comparison FY 2005                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     [This chart depicts  the medium and average  process time by                                                               
     elapsed days comparisons between  the State in 2003-2004 and                                                               
     ASCI in  2005. Both  entities' medium  process time  was two                                                               
     days with an average of 5.1  days for the State and 4.8 days                                                               
     for ASCI.]                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Requisition Process Time Comparison 2Q 2006                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     [This  chart  compares,  by Elapsed  Days,  the  medium  and                                                               
     average process time for the  State in the second quarter of                                                               
     2004  to  ASCI's  second quarter  2006  process  times.  The                                                               
     State's medium process time was  two days and ASCI's process                                                               
     time was one  day; the State's average process  time was 4.4                                                               
     days as compared to ASCI's 4.1 days.]                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
9:44:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  reviewed the information  on this page. Even  with a                                                               
lower  staff count  and increasing  workloads, ASCI  was able  to                                                               
handle the  workload. ASCI must  adhere to a new  requirement not                                                               
generally required  of previous State procurement  employees: any                                                               
item  exceeding  $2,500  must receive  "specific  not  to  exceed                                                               
budget authority".  Were a procurement to  exceed that authority,                                                               
ASCI  must  contact  and receive  authority  from  the  approver.                                                               
Nonetheless, ASCI  was able to  obtain a decrease  in requisition                                                               
processing time. ASCI's processing time has decreased over time.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
9:46:34 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 19                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Process Days - SOA Employee SmartTools Requests                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     [This graph depicts the decrease  in processing days that is                                                               
     experienced  by   those  State  employees  using   the  ASCI                                                               
     Webtools system.]                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins explained  that ASCI's  Webtools catalog  system has                                                               
allowed State  employees to place  and receive approval  of their                                                               
requisitions and then submit them  to ASCI. While most orders are                                                               
now processed in  this manner, getting to this point  "was a long                                                               
haul". In the  fourth quarter of 2004, State  employees using the                                                               
Webtools requisition system  experienced approximately a four-day                                                               
processing  timeframe; that  was "quickly"  reduced to  a one-day                                                               
processing   time;  and   today,  "orders   placed  on   the  web                                                               
procurement platform" were "getting out  same day" more than half                                                               
the time. The speed is increasing.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  shared a  communiqué ASCI  recently received  from a                                                               
state employee on  a vessel: "I know  you guys get a  hard time …                                                               
but I just  want to say that I've really  seen speed differences.                                                               
I'm looking at  a pair of boots  that I ordered just  a couple of                                                               
days ago and I can't believe they've already showed up here."                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins  clarified not  all  requisitions  are received  via                                                               
Webtools. In  addition, there are  some "inherent"  issues within                                                               
the  AMHS that  make the  implementation of  the Webtools  system                                                               
"more challenging"  than most  State agencies.  Nonetheless, ASCI                                                               
is continuing to work on implementing the system.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
9:48:31 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  asked  whether ASCI  developed  the  Smarttools                                                               
program  and whether  British Petroleum  and  other ASCI  clients                                                               
also utilized it.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Hawkins  affirmed   the  electronic   commerce  (eCommerce)                                                               
technology  was  developed  to  further  ASCI  business  practice                                                               
processes.  Such  a  program  is invaluable  to  a  supply  chain                                                               
management company. The  Smarttools program is on  par with other                                                               
internationally used programs.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
9:49:29 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 20                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Percent Orders to Alaska Vendors                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     [This graph  indicates 58.3 percent of  the vendors utilized                                                               
     by the State  in FY 04 were Alaska  vendors. Alaskan vendors                                                               
     amounted to  63.6 percent of  ASCI's vendors in FY  2005 and                                                               
     68.6 percent in FY 2006.]                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Percent Order Value to Alaska Vendors                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     [This  graph  reflects  that Alaska  vendors  received  47.3                                                               
     percent of the order values placed  by the State in FY 2004.                                                               
     53.2 percent and 59.0 percent  of the order values placed by                                                               
     ASCI in FY 2005 and FY 2006, respectfully, were to Alaska                                                                  
     vendors.]                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins  noted  another accountability  measure  built  into                                                               
ASCI's performance  benchmark by the  State is its use  of Alaska                                                               
vendors. He  reminded the Committee  about Mr.  Jackson's earlier                                                               
concern about how  the cost of goods secured  from Alaska vendors                                                               
could  be  distorted by  the  manner  in  which freight  cost  is                                                               
accounted for.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins  noted this  page  reflects  the percentage  of  the                                                               
orders  and  the  percentage  of the  values  spent  with  Alaska                                                               
vendors.  In  summary,  ASCI spent  $690,000  more  dollars  with                                                               
Alaska vendors than the State had previously spent.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:51:10 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins stressed the pride and  effort taken by ASCI "to form                                                               
service   relationships  with   Alaska  vendors".   The  economic                                                               
benefits resulting from such relationships  include the fact that                                                               
Alaskan  vendors manage  freight  charges better  and would  have                                                               
goods and supplies  on hand. This would  increase service levels,                                                               
particularly in Southeast Alaska.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Page 21                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     More Performance Indicators                                                                                                
        · Fully functional e-Commerce system                                                                                    
        · Tailored to SOA needs, integrated                                                                                     
        · Deployed with users, vendors                                                                                          
        · 5000 item catalog                                                                                                     
        · Inventory reduction (office supplies)                                                                                 
        · Customer feedback log                                                                                                 
        · Private sector performance management                                                                                 
        · High priority order (P1) status log                                                                                   
        · "Large" procurements log                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins outlined this information.  The customer feedback log                                                               
is  reviewed and,  combined with  the private  sector performance                                                               
management tool  information, is  "used as  a management  tool to                                                               
make needed changes". The changes  enacted have served to produce                                                               
"high  morale amongst  staff even  though they  are up  against a                                                               
lot". "That sense of being  against all odds and pulling together                                                               
as a team" contributes to company morale.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins shared  that ASCI maintains a priority  one, two, and                                                               
three  expediting process.  High priority  orders are  tracked in                                                               
systematic manner. Other management tools are also used.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
9:53:57 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Page 22                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Just a Few Examples of "Dirty Tricks"                                                                                      
        · Zero transition assistance                                                                                            
        · Failure to stop or overcome sabotage                                                                                  
        · Internal group formed during first month to accumulate                                                                
          evidence for contract termination                                                                                     
        · Misinformation campaign from beginning                                                                                
        · Concealment of baseline staffing                                                                                      
        · Interference in employee relations                                                                                    
       · Failure to issue timely web ordering procedures                                                                        
        · Regular "fishing" for complaints                                                                                      
        · Double standards on operations and metrics                                                                            
        · Unilateral changes in contract deliverables                                                                           
        · Interference in "independent" studies                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  pointed out that  with all the positive  things that                                                               
have occurred,  you would anticipate "positive  feedback from the                                                               
agencies"  involved with  PPP.  This  is not  the  case. None  of                                                               
ASCI's performance  accomplishments have been  acknowledged. "The                                                               
response has  been stone  silence, and in  fact the  response has                                                               
been  just the  opposite." The  "litany of  … bureaucratic  dirty                                                               
tricks  have occurred,  designed  to sweep  the good  performance                                                               
picture under the rug, highlight  any bad performance that can be                                                               
documented, and discredit the program."                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  stated that  the list of  examples depicted  on this                                                               
page is not inclusive. There  was no transition assistance and in                                                               
fact,  when ASCI  entered  the  office for  the  first time,  the                                                               
cubicles were  not set up, the  office chairs were "the  worst in                                                               
the building",  and the ink  cartridges in the  computer printers                                                               
were  empty.  "Little   was  done  to  ease"   the  ASCI  staff's                                                               
transition into the operation.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde, considering "the word  sabotage … as a very strong                                                               
word", asked Mr. Hawkins for further "elaboration".                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
9:56:24 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins  characterized  SOA  actions  as  "petty  sabotage".                                                               
Vendor lists,  fax cover sheets  to vendors,  Rolodex information                                                               
including  phone   numbers  and   names  "had   been  destroyed".                                                               
Warehouse  staff "refused  to show"  ASCI  employees the  system,                                                               
refused to show  them how the existing  inventory process worked,                                                               
and  how inventory  transactions were  processed. DOT  management                                                               
"did nothing to  stop" that behavior. The  logbooks that recorded                                                               
the number of service trips the  warehouse staff made to the Auke                                                               
Bay Ferry Terminal  and to the Lemon  Creek Correctional Facility                                                               
to  exchange   out  laundry  were  hidden,   and  thus  important                                                               
scheduling   information   was   unavailable   to   ASCI   staff.                                                               
Nonetheless,  ASCI   persevered  and  eventually   overcame  such                                                               
actions.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawker reiterated  DOT management's  lack  of assistance  in                                                               
addressing the petty  sabotage. In the first few  weeks of taking                                                               
responsibility  for  procurement  for   DOT,  ASCI  was  told  by                                                               
employees  "that they  thought  it was  wrong;  that an  internal                                                               
group  had  been  formed  under  the  auspices  of  Nancy  Slagle                                                               
[Director,  Division of  Administrative  Services, Department  of                                                               
Transportation and Public Facilities]  to accumulate evidence and                                                               
documentation   on   how   to   discredit   the   program."   The                                                               
[unidentified] Contract  Manager "who was supposed  to smooth the                                                               
transition" told ASCI that he felt  "this was a bad idea and that                                                               
this group had been formed to try to put a stop to it."                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawker stated there was  misinformation from the beginning of                                                               
PPP. Minor growing pains and  other normal occurrences were blown                                                               
out  of proportion.  Any compliments  directed  at ASCI  services                                                               
were viewed  as being "undeserved". The  aforementioned incidents                                                               
were some  of the  things that  occurred at  the onset  of ASCI's                                                               
involvement.  Unfortunately,   the  negative  behavior   "is  not                                                               
abating", and  could even  be viewed  as "intensifying"  as PPP's                                                               
termination date nears.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
9:59:33 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins opined  that SOA reasoning could be "the  time is now                                                               
to kill it if it can be killed, before it's extended".                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
9:59:43 AM                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins perceived the MCAC Study  as "part and parcel of that                                                               
process",  regardless   of  the  fact  that   the  Department  of                                                               
Administration  staff would  argue  differently,   "We know  when                                                               
we're  getting  our  chain  pulled. We  know  when  we're  facing                                                               
hostility; we know when we're trying  to be set up to fail. While                                                               
that's not  the policy of  the Governor's Office, and  that's not                                                               
the policy  of everybody in the  two agencies that we  deal with,                                                               
it  is the  agenda  of too  many  of  the people  that  are in  a                                                               
position of influence over this Program."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawker  stressed it is not  "the nature" of ASCI  to say such                                                               
things  about   its  customers;  however,  at   this  point,  the                                                               
Legislature  should  be aware  of  what  has been  occurring.  It                                                               
should be  placed on the  record that, were "these  dirty tricks"                                                               
to continue,  ASCI would  not be  taking "it  quietly and  let it                                                               
happen in the dark".                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
10:01:04 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  remarked that, had State  property been destroyed,                                                               
he would  view it as "verging  on a criminal act"  rather than as                                                               
petty  sabotage.  Further  investigation in  this  regard  should                                                               
occur. The actions shared could be  "a very disturbing trend or a                                                               
highly unfortunate  coincidence". Continuing, he shared  that the                                                               
Senate  Labor &  Commerce  Committee had  conducted an  oversight                                                               
meeting  the previous  day  in regards  to  "materials that  were                                                               
essential  to the  Aetna Insurance/Blue  Cross Insurance  RFP had                                                               
mysteriously  disappeared  and  then reappeared  later."  Due  to                                                               
serious concerns, he  has requested a Legislative  Budget & Audit                                                               
(LB&A) audit of the State's  procurement process to be conducted.                                                               
"I am very concerned."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green acknowledged.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
10:02:15 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  asked  for  clarification  as  to  whether  State                                                               
property had been destroyed or  had simply been made inaccessible                                                               
to ASCI.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins responded  "both". Some of "the  clerical tools" that                                                               
would have  been "helpful"  to ASCI had  been thrown  away; other                                                               
materials had been hidden.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
In response to a question  from Senator Olson, Mr. Hawkins stated                                                               
that  he  was  not  in  the position  to  determine  whether  the                                                               
disposal of tools that were  developed to support the procurement                                                               
process  and which  would have  assisted ASCI  in its  transition                                                               
would meet the definition of destruction.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  thanked Senator  Bunde  for  his initiative  to                                                               
request an LB&A audit.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken,  referring to  the information  on page  6 about                                                               
the  other entities  to whom  ASCI provides  services, asked  Mr.                                                               
Hawkins  to describe  how the  services provided  in the  private                                                               
sector could  benefit the State.  In other words, he  was seeking                                                               
additional information about ASCI's experience.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:04:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  responded that the  services ASCI provides  to Exxon                                                               
Mobil  and BP  include "websites  and Webtools  that we  host for                                                               
them   in  connection   with  their   Sakhalin  Island   [Russia]                                                               
developments. Those contracts  … reflect our efforts  to begin to                                                               
participate internationally in this new  oil and gas province off                                                               
of the east  coast of Russia". These small  projects include such                                                               
things  as  hosting  both entities'  official  bilingual  project                                                               
websites as  well as technology relating  to international vendor                                                               
registrations.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:05:30 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins,  for business  purposes, chose  not to  disclose the                                                               
company's  gross income.  Continuing,  he  characterized the  SOA                                                               
Program as  not being  a huge  piece of  ASCI's business  in that                                                               
only eight of 160 employees are involved in the project.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  asked whether "the lessons  learned" from ASCI's                                                               
private  business   practices  are  integrated  into   the  State                                                               
program.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Hawkins   affirmed   the  lessons   learned   from   ASCI's                                                               
relationships  with BP  and the  other private  sector operations                                                               
are integrated  with PPP.  This would  include ASCI's  ability to                                                               
build functional  Webtools cost  effectively and  the utilization                                                               
of its measurement and process management tools.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:07:03 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson, noting  ASCI  was structured  as  a LLC  (Limited                                                               
Liability  Corporation),  asked  regarding   the  owners  of  the                                                               
business.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins   responded  that  Alaskan   individuals,  including                                                               
members  of its  management team,  primarily own  ASCI. Companies                                                               
such as Frontier Plumbing in  Fairbanks and Engineered Equipment,                                                               
Alaska  Pump and  Supply,  and Dowman  Bock  in Anchorage.  Puget                                                               
Sound Pipe and Supply are also owners.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Olson   asked   regarding   Mr.   Hawkins'   background                                                               
experience.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
10:07:58 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins communicated  that previous to working  with ASCI, he                                                               
had been  a private  practice consultant in  the field  of supply                                                               
chain  management  specializing  in   such  things  as  inventory                                                               
optimization and  vendor performance  management. Prior  to that,                                                               
he  had  been president  of  the  Anchorage Economic  Development                                                               
Corporation. That  organization's effort  to market  Anchorage as                                                               
an international distribution  center led to his  interest in the                                                               
supply chain management field.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  noted the private industry  customer base depicted                                                               
on  page  6  is  comprised primarily  of  "oil  industry  related                                                               
entities". Thus  he assumed Mr. Hawkins'  background must include                                                               
oil industry experience.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  answered he  had been  "heavily involved"  in supply                                                               
chain  management in  the oil  industry  for the  past ten  years                                                               
primarily because "that's  where a lot of the action  is" in this                                                               
State. His  business partner's background  was in the  supply and                                                               
distribution  industry. Other  management team's  backgrounds are                                                               
varied.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:09:37 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  asked   he  be  provided  with  a   copy  of  the                                                               
correspondence from  the two SOA  employees who directed  ASCI to                                                               
conduct their own study in order to discuss the MCAC report.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jackson   responded  that  one   of  these   directives  was                                                               
communicated via an  email and the other was  through a telephone                                                               
conversation. The email would be provided.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:10:31 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green asked  whether the  basis of  the opposition  has                                                               
been identified.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson was "sad to say  that it's an all too often situation                                                               
I observed during  my career. I feel there's a  certain amount of                                                               
protection of empire  involved here. A certain  sort of heartfelt                                                               
belief that  purchasing for government  can't be done  by anybody                                                               
but  government employees,  and that  this is  a silly  idea, and                                                               
cooperation  just isn't  going to  be forthcoming."  It could  be                                                               
"the heartfelt  belief that it's  wrong to do business  this way"                                                               
combined with  "the idea  that if  procurement can  be outsourced                                                               
what's next".                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green asked whether the  opposition came from management                                                               
as well as "rank and file" employees.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jackson  communicated  that  in  his  capacity  as  an  ASCI                                                               
Smarttools trainer, he  had the opportunity to work  in a variety                                                               
of State offices. He had a  sense of the line employees' feelings                                                               
about  PPP  verses  the  sense he  gathered  from  "higher  level                                                               
management folks".  The line  level employees  viewed it  as just                                                               
another  thing they  had to  learn how  to do,  and, as  training                                                               
transpired, they  accepted the  change. He  did not  witness that                                                               
"sense of coming around" in the management team.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jackson shared  that, prior to becoming an  ASCI employee, he                                                               
had conducted a  management review on behalf of  ASCI. During the                                                               
first   month  PPP   was   implemented,   the  State's   contract                                                               
administrator  at  that time,  Charlie  Daringer  (ph), who  "was                                                               
managing on  behalf of  the State  ASCI's performance",  told him                                                               
"in  a  semi-confidential  way  in   the  sense  that"  they  had                                                               
previously  worked  together,  "that   he  was  adverse  to  this                                                               
Program". He  "did not see how  it was ever going  to save money,                                                               
and  he had  prepared  or  worked on  preparing  some  form of  a                                                               
document that was  going to recommend that it  not be continued."                                                               
Mr. Jackson  verbally requested  a copy  of that  document. After                                                               
failing to  receive the  document, he later  made the  request in                                                               
writing. Mr.  Daringer's [ph] response  was that he was  "not the                                                               
custodian of records on this, if  you want to get records, you're                                                               
going  to  have to  request  them"  from the  DOT  Commissioner's                                                               
Office. At this point, Mr.  Jackson informed Scott Hawkins of the                                                               
situation.  Mr.  Hawkins'  decision  was,  considering  this  was                                                               
occurring  at the  beginning of  a new  situation, "let's  try to                                                               
just   work   through   this."   Unfortunately   the   "attitude"                                                               
experienced at the onset has  "prevailed throughout this contract                                                               
at the upper levels of management".                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:14:46 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Dr. OLIVER HEDGEPETH, Professor,  University of Alaska, testified                                                               
via teleconference from  an offnet site, and  communicated to the                                                               
Committee that,  as part of  its free community  service program,                                                               
the Logistics Department at the  University performed an analysis                                                               
of the MCAC Study findings for ASCI.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde   understood  a   University  Masters   Class  had                                                               
conducted the analysis on to the Study.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Dr. Hedgepeth affirmed. The analysis  was conducted by a graduate                                                               
course he teaches which focuses  on measurements of supply chain.                                                               
He  has  39  years  of  history as  a  mathematician.  The  class                                                               
conducted an  analysis of both  the MCAC Study and  an evaluation                                                               
of  the business  process of  ASCI's "cost  of goods  procurement                                                               
process as  a matter of course  in developing a case  study which                                                               
we as a group are writing up  to publish in a peer review journal                                                               
on how  business can be  done in a  private company from  a State                                                               
request".                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:16:12 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  inquired as to  how the determination was  made to                                                               
focus on this particular case study.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Hedgepeth  responded  that "former  students"  who  are  now                                                               
employed at ASCI communicated to him  that ASCI was "a place that                                                               
had good  insight on  supply chain  management". Mr.  Jackson and                                                               
Mr. Hawkins asked him and his  "team" whether they would like "to                                                               
gather more  information about  the business  process for  use in                                                               
our class".  He characterized the  logistics class he  teaches as                                                               
"dirty logistics"  in that he likes  "his students to get  out in                                                               
the   field  prior   to  graduation".   Consequently  the   class                                                               
considered "developing  a case  study based on  some of  the work                                                               
that  ASCI was  doing". He  asided that  the class  also conducts                                                               
such studies  for other companies  in its endeavor  to understand                                                               
the  mechanics  of doing  business  in  the Alaska  supply  chain                                                               
industry.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde  queried  as  to whether  an  evaluation  of  "the                                                               
effectiveness  and  the  accuracy  of  the  procedures"  of  each                                                               
particular case study is conducted.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Hedgepeth affirmed,  "that  is  investigated". He  disclosed                                                               
that  he had  not  allowed  his class  to  see  the reports  from                                                               
Northern Economics and Altman Rogers &  Co. until a few days ago.                                                               
The  effort  was  to  "investigate  and  try  to  understand  the                                                               
business process from our standard view  of how cost of goods and                                                               
services should be  measured in any situation. We  try to develop                                                               
a generic process.  Now they've looked at these reports  … and it                                                               
was  interesting  that  our  methodology   seems  to  conform  to                                                               
statements by Northern Economics and Altman Rogers."                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde understood  therefore  that the  class deemed  the                                                               
Northern  Economics  and Altman  Rogers  studies  to be  a  "more                                                               
accurate portrayal of  the facts", and that the  MCAC Study could                                                               
be characterized as "inaccurate".                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Dr.  Hedgepeth stated  that in  his terms,  the MCAC  Study would                                                               
receive an  "F" grade. The  Altman Rogers & Company  and Northern                                                               
Economics, Inc  reports on  the MCAC Study  would receive  an "A"                                                               
grade.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde acknowledged  Dr.  Hedgepeth's  expertise in  this                                                               
field  and concluded  that  the  Study is  flawed  and that  "the                                                               
reports of the report seem to be a good portrayal".                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:19:35 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DON  PETERSON,  Senior  Manager, Mikunda  Cottrell  Accounting  &                                                               
Consulting (MCAC),  clarified for the  record that there  are two                                                               
Mikunda Cottrell firms in Anchorage.  MCAC is not associated with                                                               
the Mikunda Cottrell auditing firm.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Peterson  provided an  oversight  of  the project  MCAC  was                                                               
requested to perform  as well as "what was not  requested of us".                                                               
MCAC  compiled  a  Study  titled "State  of  Alaska  Division  of                                                               
General Services  Cost of  Goods Analysis"  [copy on  file] dated                                                               
November 25, 2005  "which reviewed a number of items  on the cost                                                               
of  service  for  the  State   of  Alaska".  He  summarized  some                                                               
observations included in the Study.  The purpose of the Study was                                                               
to  gain an  understanding of  the  process to  place goods,  and                                                               
methods  for ordering  the delivery  of goods.  "When we  started                                                               
that process, there  was an attempt on our part  to obtain enough                                                               
matches within the  State and ASCI system  to provide statistical                                                               
information. It became very clear  very quickly that that was not                                                               
going to  be possible, and  there's been  a lot of  comments here                                                               
that  this is  not a  statistically valid  sample. We  agree with                                                               
that. The  State, ASCI, and  us very  early on became  aware that                                                               
that was not  going to be possible. And the  three parties simply                                                               
said should  we go forward and  perform an analysis that  we know                                                               
is not statistically valid. The answer was yes, and we did."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
In  response  to a  question  from  Senator Bunde,  Mr.  Peterson                                                               
explained that  even though there were  40,000 item transactions,                                                               
there were only  approximately 167 exact matches  in the systems.                                                               
Therefore, MCAC  "tested 100  percent of  the available  items to                                                               
test".                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  asked for  further clarification  as to  whom MCAC                                                               
notified about the limited sample count.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson  responded MCAC had  notified the State  "about what                                                               
could be tested". The understanding is  that the State then had a                                                               
discussion with ASCI in this regard.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde asked whom MCAC worked with at the State level.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Peterson  identified  Vern  Jones and  Tom  Mayer  with  the                                                               
Division  of General  Services, Department  of Administration  as                                                               
the State representatives.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde understood  therefore  that even  though MCAC  had                                                               
communicated to the  State that the Study  would be statistically                                                               
invalid, the State's response was to continue.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson  affirmed the response  was "to proceed".  The Study                                                               
would only be "considered an  indicator of information". MCAC was                                                               
"asked  to proceed  with that  understanding, and  that's exactly                                                               
what we did because those were  the procedures that we were asked                                                               
to do".                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:23:40 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Peterson  continued that  "based  upon  the report  that  we                                                               
issued, ASCI, as  they testified, hired Altman, Rogers  & Co. and                                                               
Northern Economics  Inc. to take  a look at our  information, and                                                               
both  those  firms  concluded   the  results  were  statistically                                                               
invalid, and  we agree. We  knew that going  in, and that  was an                                                               
agreed upon  procedure for  the testing we  were supposed  to do.                                                               
Everybody  understood  that this  would  not  be a  statistically                                                               
valid sample. But again, the  only items that were available were                                                               
the  167 items.  Now Altman  and Rogers  brought up  a number  of                                                               
other issues. And I would like to address those at this time."                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
10:24:52 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  asked   "the  validity  of  the   Study  if  it's                                                               
statistically invalid".                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson stated  the Study would serve as  "an indicator, and                                                               
nothing more". MCAC  informed the State of this and  were told to                                                               
continue.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green  asked whether MCAC  had a role in  publishing the                                                               
Study as a public document.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Peterson responded  "no";  the Study  was  delivered to  the                                                               
State of Alaska.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson  read into the  record his firm's response  [copy on                                                               
file] to the Altman Rogers & Company Report as follows.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:32:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Response to Altman Rogers & Company Report.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Mikunda Cottrell Accounting &  Consulting (MCAC) was engaged                                                               
     by  the State  of Alaska,  Division of  General Services  to                                                               
     conduct an  analysis of  the cost of  goods procured  by the                                                               
     State's procurement  agent, Alaska Supply  Chain Integrators                                                               
     (ASCI) at  the Southeast Region  (SER) of the  Department of                                                               
     Transportation and Public Facilities (DOT).                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The purpose of  this engagement was to  document the percent                                                               
     increase or decrease of the  cost of goods procured by ASCI,                                                               
     when  compared to  similar purchases  made  by former  state                                                               
     procurement  employees  at  the   SER  over  three  separate                                                               
     reporting periods.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     A report  was issued  for the  first reporting  period dated                                                               
     November  25,  2005. ASCI  engaged  the  services of  Altman                                                               
     Rogers  & Company,  Certified Public  Accountants to  review                                                               
     our report.  Altman Rogers &  Company issued a  report dated                                                               
     February  28,  2006, and  MCAC  has  provided the  following                                                               
     responses to that report.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     IV. Clerical errors. We reviewed  the unit price differences                                                               
     noted on  the Altman  report and find  that the  prices that                                                               
     were  used on  the  Altman  report were  the  prices on  the                                                               
     delivery order (DO).  The prices that were used  in the MCAC                                                               
     report for ACSI were prices  on the actual invoice paid. Our                                                               
     sample  of selected  comparable  items was  167;  of the  12                                                               
     items noted  on the  Altman report, only  two items  were in                                                               
     fact  errors,  and  they  were   clerical  errors,  and  not                                                               
     critical errors.  The results of  our review are  located in                                                               
     Exhibit  IV.  The  two  clerical  errors  resulted  from  an                                                               
     invoice that was not clearly  legible and the other was from                                                               
     numbers  that  were  transposed.   The  Altman  report  also                                                               
     referred to item number 115  as a critical error because our                                                               
     report  does not  include the  item being  comparable to  an                                                               
     ASCI purchase.  We researched this and  determined that item                                                               
     number 115  is a comparable  item; however, the  Buyspeed DO                                                               
     numbers were transposed  and have no effect  on the results.                                                               
     We  have determined  that  if  we were  to  correct the  two                                                               
     clerical  errors  on  our original  report,  the  percentage                                                               
     increase  in  cost would  be  8.97%,  instead of  the  9.00%                                                               
     originally  stated  in  our  report.   We  have  made  these                                                               
     corrections in Exhibit A.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     Date  Discrepancies: From  the selected  samples of  167, we                                                               
     reviewed  the  list of  41  date  differences noted  in  the                                                               
     Altman report  and agree to  one date difference.  MCAC used                                                               
     the date of  order from the Buyspeed  program when selecting                                                               
     purchases  in  the  reporting periods.  We  were  unable  to                                                               
     determine where  Altman obtained  the dates listed  on their                                                               
     report.  Copies  of the  delivery  orders  mentioned in  the                                                               
     Altman Report are noted as  Exhibit IVa. The date difference                                                               
     does  not have  any affect  on the  results of  this report,                                                               
     because it is  within the date range used  for Report Number                                                               
     1. We have made this change in Exhibit A.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     V. Review  of Adequacy of  Transaction Research. Of  the 167                                                               
     comparable items in  our report, we reviewed the  9 noted in                                                               
     the Altman report and found 4  where we would agree that the                                                               
     comparable items were different.  The results of this review                                                               
     may be seen in exhibit V.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     We would  agree that Line item  1, 7 and 16  are most likely                                                               
     not comparable. For item number  1, the ASCI description and                                                               
     the  State  description  were the  exact  same,  except  the                                                               
     State's item said "diamond plate" and ASCI's did not.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Item  number  7  is  the same  item  name  and  description;                                                               
     however upon  further investigation  we noted that  the item                                                               
     purchased by  the State was  purchased from Costco in  a two                                                               
     package container instead  of a one pack  container like the                                                               
     ASCI purchase.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
     Item number 16 was for  purchases of cellular telephones and                                                               
     two  year cellular  telephone  service  contracts. We  would                                                               
     agree that these  items would most likely  not be comparable                                                               
     because  the  purchase  by  the  State  included  additional                                                               
     items.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Items number  40, 44, 81,  and 145  the State and  ASCI DO's                                                               
     were  the  exact same  description,  therefore,  we did  not                                                               
     contact  the  vendors  for  additional  information.  Altman                                                               
     stated  in their  report  that item  number  44 was  further                                                               
     researched  and ASCI's  order stated  that the  item ordered                                                               
     "must  be balanced".  We reviewed  the Buyspeed  DO and  the                                                               
     actual invoice  for ASCI and do  not see anywhere on  any of                                                               
     the documents that the item "must be balanced".                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Item  number 24,  Altman stated  in their  report that  ASCI                                                               
     ordered  a T  square  and the  State  ordered a  combination                                                               
     square.  Review of  the actual  invoices for  ASCI indicated                                                               
     that a  combination square was  in fact ordered by  ASCI and                                                               
     the items are comparable.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     We  would agree  that  items number  1, 7  and  16 are  most                                                               
     likely  not  comparable, and  have  been  excluded from  our                                                               
     sample. Item  Number 121  is a  comparing item,  however the                                                               
     number was  transposed. If you  remove these items  from our                                                               
     sample,  and make  the other  clerical corrections  noted in                                                               
     Section  IV, the  result would  be an  11.57% cost  increase                                                               
     instead of  a 9%  increase in our  original report.  We have                                                               
     made  these   corrections  and  recalculated   our  original                                                               
     Exhibit A. The results of these can be found in A-1.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     Shipping: Shipping  was not taken  in consideration  for the                                                               
     following reasons:                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
        · Sometimes shipping was included on DO's where it said                                                                 
          "shipping was  included in  price, and  the DO  was for                                                               
          more  than one  item.  We could  not  determine how  we                                                               
          could fairly assign  shipping to the "part  or item" in                                                               
          our sample.                                                                                                           
        · Shipping would be listed at the bottom of the Buyspeed                                                                
          DO as a separate charge.  We could not determine how to                                                               
          fairly  assign that  cost if  there was  more than  one                                                               
          item on the DO.                                                                                                       
        · Different quantities were ordered for each item, by                                                                   
          the state  or ASCI,  since the quantities  ordered were                                                               
          not  identical, we  are to  assume that  shipping costs                                                               
          (no matter  how they are  presented on the DO)  must be                                                               
          different and we can not  determine exactly how must to                                                               
          assign to each item.                                                                                                  
        · Additionally, we noted that the exact items may have                                                                  
          been shipped to different  locations (such as the ferry                                                               
          system)  and would  assume  that  shipping costs  would                                                               
          most likely be different.                                                                                             
        · Some DO's noted shipping as an estimate of .05 cents                                                                  
          when it  was obvious that  it would cost more  than .05                                                               
          cents to ship an item.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Because of  the above  challenges dealing with  shipping, we                                                               
     determined that  we would leave shipping  out, when possible                                                               
     as noted in our report.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson interjected that shipping costs were not considered                                                                
in the Study because there was "no uniform reasonable method to                                                                 
assign to it".                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     VI.  Application   of  inflation  factors.  We   noted  that                                                               
     Northern Economics Inc. was asked  to provide information on                                                               
     the  application  of inflation  factors.  We  did not  apply                                                               
     inflation   factors  because   we,  like   Altman  are   not                                                               
     economists, and  do not have  the credentials to  apply such                                                               
     factors. We  did however, make  note in our report  that the                                                               
     passage of time should be  noted when viewing the results of                                                               
     our procedures. In addition,  the State provided information                                                               
     to us  regarding the CPI  [Consumer Price Index] and  how it                                                               
     relates to items  procured on State contracts  and we listed                                                               
     that  percentage  in  our  report.  We  did  not  apply  the                                                               
     percentage  because  of  the  variety  of  items  that  were                                                               
     purchased. We  did not that  several of the vendors  that we                                                               
     spoke to  while we  were conducting  our procedures  told us                                                               
     that the price  of steel had increased  during the reporting                                                               
     period and we noted that in our report.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     The report by Altman also noted  in this section that of the                                                               
     167 matches, 82  were found to be beyond a  12 month period.                                                               
     The  date   parameters  that   were  established   for  this                                                               
     engagement were  very specific and  exceeded a  twelve month                                                               
     span. The reporting periods were the following:                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Report  Number 1:  July 1,  2003 to  June 30,  2004 compared                                                               
     with July 1, 2004 through June 30, 2005.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Report  Number  2:  July  1,  2005  to  September  30,  2005                                                               
     compared with July 1, 2004 through June 30, 2005.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Report  Number  3: October  1,  2005  to December  31,  2005                                                               
     compared with July 1, 2004 through June 30, 2005.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     This  section  of  the  Altman  report  also  mentions  that                                                               
     comparisons  that included  purchases under  supply contract                                                               
     and contained escalation  clauses for inflation adjustments.                                                               
     The state advised us of the following:                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     1. ASCI must utilize all mandatory contracts.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     2. ASCI must  utilize non mandatory contracts  to the extent                                                               
     practicable,  but  are not  required  to  use non  mandatory                                                               
     contracts.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     3. It is not  possible to tell based on the  data at hand if                                                               
     the item purchased from the  contract vendor was actually an                                                               
     item under  contract as vendors,  for example may  sell many                                                               
     items that may not be on contract.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     4. It  is also not  possible to  tell if the  purchases were                                                               
     actually made from a contract as  the DO's do not refer to a                                                               
     specific state contract, therefore,  the items may have been                                                               
     purchased from a vendor without regard to a state contract.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The state has  advised us that less than  half the purchases                                                               
     in the  sample pool  were from  vendors with  existing state                                                               
     contracts.  In addition,  only about  one third  of contract                                                               
     vendor purchases were from contracts  that contained a price                                                               
     adjustment clause.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     VII. Weighting of transactions.  We reviewed the information                                                               
     that  was  provided by  Altman  regarding  the weighting  of                                                               
     transactions.  We  clearly  noted  in our  report  that  our                                                               
     methodology was  to look at  price increase or  decrease per                                                               
     unit. The  purpose of our  report was not to  determine cost                                                               
     savings  for items  that are  not similar,  as noted  in the                                                               
     example   regarding   the   paper  clips   and   compressor.                                                               
     Additionally,  ASCI and  the  State  purchased in  different                                                               
     quantities  and  accordingly,  no uniform  weighting  system                                                               
     could be established.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     VIII.  Extrapolation  to  a  Larger  Population.  The  state                                                               
     provided  us  with  the  total   value  ($11.1  million)  of                                                               
     procurements  conducted by  ASCI  for Report  Number 1.  The                                                               
     State  advised  us  that  while they  do  not  dispute  that                                                               
     services  are included  in the  $11.1  million reflected  in                                                               
     Report One, the  State or MCAC has not verified  the cost of                                                               
     goods  reflected  in  the  Altman  Rogers  reports  as  $6.8                                                               
     million.  In addition,  we simply  indicated  in our  Report                                                               
     Number  1 that  if  you  were to  take  the cost  percentage                                                               
     increase that  was calculated using the  data and multiplied                                                               
     it by the  total amount of purchases conducted  by ASCI, you                                                               
     would get that calculated increase in cost.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     IX. Alaska Vendor Usage. We  did not consider the percentage                                                               
     of usage by  Alaska vendor's verses usage of  vendors out of                                                               
     state. We would agree with  the information in Altman Rogers                                                               
     report  that the  State monitors  the  percentage of  vendor                                                               
     usage.  The State  provided us  with  reports that  indicate                                                               
     ASCI utilized Alaska vendors on  62.77 % of purchases during                                                               
     the reporting period  while the State percentage  of use was                                                               
     58.16% during the prior period.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     Conclusion:                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The methodology that we used  to perform this engagement was                                                               
     agreed upon  by the State  and ASCI and was  changed several                                                               
     times to  accommodate the suggestions  of both  parties. Our                                                               
     report  was  for  the  procedures   that  we  performed.  We                                                               
     performed these  procedures based  on data that  we received                                                               
     from the  State, and  in some  cases supported  by obtaining                                                               
     additional    information    from    vendors    and    other                                                               
     documentation.  We  have reviewed  the  items  noted in  the                                                               
     Altman report  and believe  the vast  majority of  the noted                                                               
     differences can  not be substantiated.  We believe  there is                                                               
     an unknown  impact from  inflation and it  was noted  in our                                                               
     report. We  also believe there are  many alternative methods                                                               
     in which to  present this data, but that  would require more                                                               
     unknown  assumptions. We  believe  our  original report,  as                                                               
     amended,  is essentially  correct  according  to our  agreed                                                               
     upon procedures with the State of Alaska.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     [NOTE:  Copies  of  Exhibit  IV,  Exhibit  A,  Exhibit  IVa,                                                               
     Exhibit V, Exhibit A-1 are on file.]                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
10:38:52 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  characterized the  final sentence of  the response                                                               
as "very  telling". Any criticisms  of the Study or  the "limited                                                               
applications" in it should be mindful  of the fact that the Study                                                               
"did  what  it could  do  …  according  to" MCAC's  "agreed  upon                                                               
procedures with the State".                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson affirmed, "that's exactly  what the report did. It's                                                               
nothing more than an indicator of what we found".                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde voiced that the limitations of the Study limit it.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde asked the cost of the Study.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson recalled  the cost being in the range  of $20,000 to                                                               
$30,000.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
10:40:17 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken asked  whether Mr. Peterson would  agree that the                                                               
amount of correspondence between MCAC  and the State would equate                                                               
to approximately 1,040 pages of paperwork.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson  clarified that  another of  his co-workers  was the                                                               
primary person working  on this endeavor. He could  attest to the                                                               
fact that "a significant amount" of correspondence had occurred.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken asked  whether  Mr. Peterson  would concur  with                                                               
language  in the  Conclusion section  on page  13 of  the Altman,                                                               
Rogers &  Co. Report  titled "  Alaska Supply  Chain Integrators,                                                               
LLC  Mikunda Cottrell  Accounting and  Consulting Costs  of Goods                                                               
and  Services Report  Management  Review and  Analysis" [copy  on                                                               
file] which reads as follows.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     Based on  these issues  and other  factors detailed  in this                                                               
     report, the conclusions reported  by MCAC are unsupportable.                                                               
     In addition, due to numerous  noted deficiencies in the data                                                               
     set   and  the   methodology   selected  by   MCAC,  it   is                                                               
     unreasonable  to  expect  that   the  MCAC  study  could  be                                                               
     corrected to provide reliable conclusions.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
10:41:09 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Peterson responded  that MCAC  reviewed each  of the  issues                                                               
raised in the  Altman, Rogers & Co. report.  MCAC has determined,                                                               
as reflected in the MCAC  written testimony Mr. Peterson had read                                                               
into the  record, "the  vast majority  of …  what they  found was                                                               
incorrect".  Both  the  Altman  Rogers &  Co.  and  the  Northern                                                               
Economics studies addressed the  statistical validity issue. MCAC                                                               
would agree that the Report should  not be considered "in any way                                                               
shape or  form" a statistically  valid sample. "We  don't pretend                                                               
that it  was." MCAC  was told  to "proceed and  tell us  what the                                                               
answer   is"  even   though  there   is  a   limited  number   of                                                               
transactions. MCAC  never represented the Study  as statistically                                                               
valid.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green asked whether MCAC  communicated that view as part                                                               
of the document when it was transmitted.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson replied  that while that issue was  not addressed in                                                               
the  Study's  conclusions,  it  is  very clear  that  it  is  not                                                               
statistically valid. Only 167 items were matched.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green  asked the reason  the lead person on  the project                                                               
was not in attendance.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson  pointed out that  MCAC received short  notice about                                                               
the meeting.  The primary individuals  who worked on  the project                                                               
were outside the State.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
10:43:02 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman remarked  that,  while the  Study  might not  be                                                               
statistically sound, it would serve as an indicator.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Peterson stressed  that the  Study should  be viewed  as "an                                                               
indicator  of what  we found".  How  the information  is used  is                                                               
another issue.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green  referenced  remarks  in the  Conclusion  of  Mr.                                                               
Peterson's testimony as follows.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     The methodology that we used to perform this engagement was                                                                
     agreed upon by the State and ASCI and was changed several                                                                  
     times to accommodate the suggestions of both parties.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green asked whether this information is documented.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Peterson deferred  to the  Department  of Administration  to                                                               
respond. The  Department of  Administration demonstrated  to MCAC                                                               
that  after MCAC  raised the  issue  about the  sample size  that                                                               
"they  went to  ASCI and  that they  had discussions  with them".                                                               
MCAC was not involved in those discussions.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green suggested that the  language she had referenced in                                                               
the MCAC Conclusion be restructured.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Peterson stated that, "the  procedures in the report are what                                                               
they are.  They're an indicator  of what we found."  Nothing more                                                               
should be drawn from them.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:44:28 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
VERN  JONES,  Chief  Procurement  Officer,  Division  of  General                                                               
Services,  Department  of  Administration, understood  that  "the                                                               
sole  purpose and  intent of  the  bill" authorizing  PPP was  to                                                               
produce cost savings. The RFP  included "strong language" in this                                                               
regard. An emphasis on cost savings  is also depicted in the ASCI                                                               
proposal  and on  the record  of that  bill. "Clearly  the intent                                                               
here is to  reduce the cost of goods and  services that the State                                                               
purchases." DGS has conducted quarterly  benchmark audits of this                                                               
contract. One of  the identified "weaknesses" of  the DGS reports                                                               
was  the  analysis of  the  cost  of  goods,  and in  fact,  this                                                               
Committee criticized  DGS in that  regard in the past.  While the                                                               
DGS analysis was not scientifically  or statistically valid, they                                                               
had endeavored  to find appropriate matches,  and the information                                                               
supported the  determination that ASCI activities  were resulting                                                               
"in  a  significant  cost increase."  Because  the  results  were                                                               
statistically invalid, DGS  issued an RFP to  hire an independent                                                               
third party  to conduct an  analysis. The "well  known accounting                                                               
firm" MCAC was hired to conduct and analysis the cost of goods.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones  "strongly objected  to Mr.  Jackson's characterization                                                               
of the State's  handling of this contract. I  object because it's                                                               
not true.  We did not try  and influence the outcome  in any way.                                                               
We simply cooperated  with them to get them  information, to find                                                               
what they could find."                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jones  responded  to  an   earlier  question  regarding  the                                                               
conversations  about   what  to  include  in   the  audit.  Those                                                               
discussions  included   himself,  Mr.  Hawkins,   Cheryl  Frasca,                                                               
Director,  Office  of  Management   and  Budget,  Office  of  the                                                               
Governor, and  others. The use  of State contracts, which  is now                                                               
an issue objected to by ASCI, was one of the items discussed.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
10:47:36 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones communicated the State  instructed MCAC "not to include                                                               
purchases  by ASCI  off  of  State contracts.  ASCI  asked us  to                                                               
include those  at the  audit, and we  did." Continuing,  he noted                                                               
the State's savings  and other data figures "do  not match those"                                                               
depicted in  Mr. Hawkins' presentation.  An executive  summary of                                                               
the  quarterly  benchmark  information could  be  provided.  "Our                                                               
figures do not match what I saw here today."                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones  had read the Altman,  Rogers & Co. report  and did not                                                               
recall it specifying that ASCI had  reduced the cost of goods for                                                               
the State.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
10:49:27 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken brought the conversation  "back to the statistics                                                               
issue. It's  hard to measure  anything if your  yardstick changes                                                               
its size every other day." This  would also apply to the scope of                                                               
the project  DGS engaged in with  MCAC. While it was  agreed that                                                               
the Study would  be statistically invalid, the  decision was made                                                               
to proceed.  "But, clearly  something changed"  from the  time of                                                               
the  August 25th  letter to  Mr. Jackson  from DGS  and November"                                                               
when the  Study was  finalized. He  referred to  two of  the four                                                               
aforementioned questions  in that  letter and read  the following                                                               
excerpts.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
        · As professionals in the field, MCAC will independently                                                                
          determine a statistically valid sample size.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Does the State know how MCAC will determine the                                                                            
     constituents of the sample and maintain statistical                                                                        
     validity?                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
        · No, MCAC will determine the samples and create a                                                                      
          statistically valid pools.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken determined  from  Mr. Mayer's  responses in  the                                                               
August  25, 2005  letter  that "he  clearly  expected" that  "the                                                               
measurements would be statistically  valid and reliable". To that                                                               
point, Co-Chair  Wilken asked, "What changed?"  after that letter                                                               
was written and the time the Study concluded.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones reiterated  that the internal studies  conducted by DGS                                                               
were  known to  be  statistically invalid,  because the  Division                                                               
could  not  find  appropriate sample  sizes.  Thus  the  Division                                                               
issued  an  RFP for  the  development  of a  statistically  valid                                                               
report  and contracted  with MCAC,  an  outside Certified  Public                                                               
Accounting firm.  They too "could  not find" a  sufficient sample                                                               
size.  The sample  size found  represents "100  percent match  of                                                               
every exact  match". A lot of  work had been done  at that point,                                                               
and  the contract  was  not  halted. "What  we  want  here is  an                                                               
indication of what's happening under  ASCI so we can assess their                                                               
performance." Thus  the determination  was made to  continue with                                                               
the Study, as a lot of work had occurred up to that point.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  stated that the  response had not  addressed his                                                               
question. There became a point in  time "when this Study became a                                                               
waste of time  and money because the yardstick  was invalid". The                                                               
question is  when did that  happen and  who made the  decision to                                                               
proceed, knowing that the end result  would be a study that could                                                               
"not be relied upon, let alone" publicly published.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
10:53:59 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones was  unsure to the exact date of  when the decision was                                                               
made to continue.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken asked  whether  Mr. Jones  was  involved in  the                                                               
decision.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones affirmed he was.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken asked  whether the decision might  have been made                                                               
in either September or October.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones could not recall.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken asked whether the  decision was made "early on in                                                               
the  process when  you  found  that the  yardstick  was going  to                                                               
change" or whether it was made mid or late in the process.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jones  reaffirmed that  he  could  not identify  an  "exact"                                                               
timeframe. At  some point,  we had a  conversation with  ASCI and                                                               
conceded to  their request  to include a  number of  other" State                                                               
contract items in the study "in an attempt" to enlarge the pool.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
10:54:53 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones  "objected" to the  position that  the Study was  of no                                                               
value. It did provide an indication of the activity.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  disagreed. The  Study is  statistically invalid,                                                               
whether it was the basis for  ASCI to proclaim that their service                                                               
had  saved  the  State  nine   percent  or  whether  DGS  claimed                                                               
otherwise. "You  can't put this out  as a work product  if it's a                                                               
dartboard. And that's what you've  done." MCAC must have informed                                                               
someone  at  some time  "you  are  publishing something  that  is                                                               
worthless".  While it  is "a  nice review  of the  facts", it  is                                                               
worthless.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken expressed  appreciation  for the  fact that  the                                                               
problems  PPP has  experienced have  been brought  forward. "It's                                                               
time that  this become  public…I'm so  disappointed in  why we're                                                               
here talking about this Study  that professionals, including you,                                                               
should have stopped from ever being published."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken asked  whether Mr. Jones had  been concerned that                                                               
the consultant  hired did not  have the expertise  to incorporate                                                               
an inflation factor.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Jones countered  that the  firm was  a reputable  accounting                                                               
firm  "fully  capable of  analyzing  data".  While they  are  not                                                               
statisticians they could conduct sample comparisons.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Wilken  acknowledged;   however  found   it  "somewhat                                                               
strange" that  a firm  without such  expertise had  conducted the                                                               
study.  He appreciated  the firm  admitting, "that  … they  don't                                                               
have the credentials to apply inflation factors".                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Jones pointed  out that ASCI's contract  firm, Altman, Rogers                                                               
& Co. did not have that expertise either.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken replied, "Altman Rogers didn't write this".                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green,  voicing disappointment  that the Study  had been                                                               
publicly published, asked how that  decision had been made. While                                                               
the  immediate participants  might understand  that the  findings                                                               
were  statistically invalid,  the  public  could perceive  things                                                               
differently. "That's kind of below the belt."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken noted  that on various occasions, "we  have … had                                                               
conclusions waiting for a study. This is another one."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE 10:58 AM / 10:59:21 AM                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ART CHANCE, Director, Division of  Labor Relations, Department of                                                               
Administration, informed  the Committee  that in his  position he                                                               
works with the  three organized labor unions  that represent "the                                                               
employees who would  be at issue in this matter  of the 800 pound                                                               
gorilla in  this …. As  confusing and conflicting as  the various                                                               
versions of  the economic analysis  might be, at some  point", he                                                               
would  be required  to "submit  those  confusing and  conflicting                                                               
versions of  the economic realities  to a labor  arbitrator who's                                                               
going  to   tell  us   whether  or   not  we've   violated  these                                                               
agreements."  One arbitrator  has already  informed him  that the                                                               
process  the State  used "to  initiate this,  at least  under the                                                               
supervisory  contract violated  their agreement."  While she  had                                                               
not  halted the  process, she  had expressed  that any  effort to                                                               
"expand or renew this process,  we had to demonstrate feasibility                                                               
by  a  means   other  than  that  which  we   used  to  initially                                                               
demonstrate it … The initial  feasibility method was basically to                                                               
take the  contractor's proposal and  compare it to our  costs. We                                                               
went out and asked that there be  proposals to do this for us and                                                               
we compared  it to  our known  costs". The  arbitrator "concluded                                                               
that  that  did  not  satisfy   the  requirements  in  the  labor                                                               
agreements,  all  of  which required  demonstration  of  economic                                                               
feasibility in order to lay  off State employees and replace them                                                               
with a private contractor."                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Chance admitted  not knowing "what a  feasibility study would                                                               
look like  under these  labor agreements  that would  satisfy any                                                               
third  party  tryer  of  fact.   Our  collective  bargaining  law                                                               
absolutely  militates  against  us  outsourcing  to  the  private                                                               
sector  any  work  being  done  by  State  employees.  The  labor                                                               
agreements that control  the employees that are  subject to this,                                                               
labor trades and crafts, general  government and supervisory, all                                                               
have  'contracting  out' language  that  permit  us to  outsource                                                               
where there  is a demonstration of  feasibility". However, "there                                                               
is no definition of what a demonstration of feasibility is."                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Chance  reminded the  Committee the State  has, in  the past,                                                               
outsourced  and   sustained  that  action   through  arbitration.                                                               
However,  the State  has also  at times  lost the  arbitration of                                                               
those activities.  He could not  discern "what the  difference is                                                               
between the ones where it was  feasible and the ones where it was                                                               
not."                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Chance communicated  "that  probably the  only  way that  we                                                               
would  change that  'contracting out'  language in  any of  those                                                               
agreements is  after the strike.  These are very  valuable pieces                                                               
of  language to  these unions."  In this  case, there  are active                                                               
grievances with  all three labor  unions. While the  Division has                                                               
collected as much  data as possible in this process,  he would be                                                               
"facing third  party neutrals in  an if lawful  binding decision,                                                               
and  they're going  to be  hearing the  same thing  that you  are                                                               
hearing today. The  State saying it's feasible using  one body of                                                               
economic  knowledge; the  unions saying  it's not  feasible using                                                               
another  body of  economic knowledge.  That's the  situation." He                                                               
has "pressed for much of  this measurement because" the situation                                                               
must be addressed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
11:03:50 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green  inquired as  to  whether  a statistically  valid                                                               
Study would have assisted Mr. Chance in this effort.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Chance was unsure  as to whether "a cost of  goods would be a                                                               
part of  the feasibility study.  One party's going to  argue that                                                               
it  should be  and  the  other party's  going  to  argue that  it                                                               
shouldn't.  The State's  position would  be that  we're going  to                                                               
maintain this  process because  the Legislatures  told us  to. We                                                               
would have to say that feasibility  is only a measure of what our                                                               
labor  and administrative  costs are,  costs of  goods are  not a                                                               
part of that." The union position  would be that while some labor                                                               
costs  might be  reduced, "they're  costing themselves  a lot  of                                                               
money on cost of goods".  The arbitrator's position on this would                                                               
be the unknown.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green remarked "what a travesty".                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green identified  labor management as being  the root of                                                               
the problem. This involves "lower  level employees who would like                                                               
to see  this scuttled who would  do anything they can  to make it                                                               
not happen and who would not want this to go forward".                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Chance "would  not  go  so far  as  to attribute  individual                                                               
actions to  individual employees"  … as there  is no  evidence in                                                               
that regard.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green  agreed,   however,  declared,  "collectively,  I                                                               
would".                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Chance stressed,  "there are  three organizations  that have                                                               
intense  institutional opposition  to us  doing this  or anything                                                               
like it."                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:05:53 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MARK O'BRIEN,  Chief Contracts Officer, Division  of Contracting,                                                               
Procurement and Appeals, Department  of Transportation and Public                                                               
Facilities  indicated he  had  not been  present  earlier in  the                                                               
meeting because he had not  anticipated his Department being part                                                               
of today's discussion. However,  after hearing his name mentioned                                                               
he decided it best to join the discussion.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. O'Brien  stated that Mr.  Hawkins' remark about  his feelings                                                               
being  hurt  when  the  Program  was  adopted  "was  not  a  fair                                                               
characterization.  What is  a fair  characterization  is is  that                                                               
there  was at  that  testimony and  those  hearings a  discussion                                                               
about the cost  of goods savings, and the number  $20 million was                                                               
thrown out." Mr. Hawkins indicated  that that was "a conservative                                                               
estimate".  He,  a 28-year  veteran  in  the State's  procurement                                                               
system, viewed  this as  "a little insulting  to think"  that the                                                               
years of efforts to enter  into multi-agency contracts and to use                                                               
our professional  expertise to achieve the  best savings possible                                                               
for the State, that somehow we  were missing the mark by a number                                                               
that large." To  imply that his "feelings were hurt,  I would say                                                               
it was frustrating and it was  insulting to the profession of the                                                               
folks that had been doing the job up to that point".                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. O'Brien  professed having no  bias at  the onset of  PPP. The                                                               
Department of  Transportation and Public  Facilities commissioner                                                               
asked him to assume "lead  for the Department in interacting with                                                               
the Department  of Administration  and ASCI in  implementing this                                                               
within the Department."                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. O'Brien addressed  the issue of destroying  State property by                                                               
characterizing  it  as  "a red  herring".  The  activities  being                                                               
referred to  "were the  result of  frustrated employees  who were                                                               
laid off as a result of the outsourcing."                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green  interrupted  to  proclaim  that  any  action  of                                                               
employees  who  were frustrated  "because  they  got released  is                                                               
inexcusable".                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. O'Brien  clarified that the  material that was  destroyed was                                                               
not State  property, "and it's  excusable because what  they were                                                               
getting rid  of were their  own personal vendor lists  and things                                                               
they  kept as  part  of their  job." An  example  would be  "your                                                               
Rolodex on  your own  desk. In  most cases, it  was a  process of                                                               
cleaning  out the  office before  ASCI came  in." …"One  employee                                                               
stated 'Well, I'm not going to  help them anymore than I can' and                                                               
he threw his Rolodex away into the trashcan."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green stated that action is "inexcusable."                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Mr. O'Brien stated it's frustrating.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. O'Brien  noted that when  the Department became aware  of the                                                               
behavior  that was  occurring, it  conducted "numerous  meetings"                                                               
and  memorandums were  issued. Department  of Transportation  and                                                               
Public Facilities  management "instructed employees  to actively,                                                               
voluntarily,   and  aggressively   participate"  with   ASCI.  He                                                               
recalled a  meeting of  the Southeast  Region of  the Department,                                                               
which was  section to which the  PPP would apply, which  was held                                                               
around  July  first, the  approximate  time  ASCI was  to  assume                                                               
procurement responsibilities.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
11:10:56 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. O'Brien continued  that at that meeting, the  Director of the                                                               
Southeast  Region, Gary  Paxston, addressed  the entirety  of the                                                               
southeast  regional   directors  "and   in  no   uncertain  terms                                                               
described to  the employees the  participation and their  role in                                                               
this Pilot.  It was blunt,  it was very clear…."  Those employees                                                               
left "knowing what management's  position was on their assistance                                                               
in rolling  the program out." It  would be incorrect to  say that                                                               
the Department  had not  addressed employee  behavior or  had not                                                               
assisted in the transition.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green appreciated that information.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green  asked  Mr. Hawkins  whether  he  had  concluding                                                               
comments.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
11:11:42 AM                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  agreed with Mr.  O'Brien that Gary Paxston  had made                                                               
"a  good faith  effort to  shoot straight  from the  shoulder and                                                               
help   us  where   he  could."   He  had   provided  "significant                                                               
leadership" to  the Department and  was a "lifeline for  us." Mr.                                                               
Paxston has retired  and has been replaced by someone  new to the                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins puzzled between "the  distinction in feeling insulted                                                               
and having one's feelings hurt."                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  addressed the comments  presented by MCAC.  "Part of                                                               
what we're seeing there is  just an unfamiliarity with doing cost                                                               
of  goods  research  …  It's clear  that  they're  struggling  to                                                               
evaluate the data.  One of the first things that  you do when you                                                               
take a  data set like  this and when  you're going cost  of goods                                                               
analysis,  is   you  do  outlier   analysis.  If  you   have  167                                                               
transactions, and  you're doing  what they  were doing  of adding                                                               
them  all  up to  a  bottom  line  result,  and tallying  it  and                                                               
comparing it to the  same column next to it, one  or two or three                                                               
transactions in that  list can have a  disproportionate affect on                                                               
the bottom  line result. That  is why, everybody has  agreed here                                                               
this morning,  and I  have to tell  you I'm  pleasantly surprised                                                               
and  floored  that  everybody  has  agreed  that  this  Study  is                                                               
statistically   invalid.  But   that's  why   it's  statistically                                                               
invalid. Because when  you use methodology like that,  one or two                                                               
transactions can  skew the thing  wildly." Thus  someone familiar                                                               
with  this   field  would  conduct   an  analysis   and  identify                                                               
"suspicious" transactions.  Identify the best  ten or 15  and the                                                               
ten    or   15    "worst"   transactions;    "those   that    are                                                               
disproportionally  impacting  the   results  and  research  those                                                               
carefully  and  make  sure that  those  are  valid  transactions.                                                               
Because when you're  looking at 50 percent or  70 percent changes                                                               
in  prices, there's  an excellent  chance that  there's something                                                               
wrong  there. It's  freight, it's  item comparability,  it's this                                                               
item  has a  service included  and this  item doesn't".  The MCAC                                                               
comment made in regards to the  fact that "they could not tell on                                                               
the comparability question" whether  this item required balancing                                                               
or  shipping  and  "this  item didn't"  is  indicative  of  their                                                               
unfamiliarity with the  process. "You have to follow  up and call                                                               
the vendors,  you have to  drill into those transactions  and ask                                                               
the question of  why are these so different. And  then you'll get                                                               
to the bottom line answer. And  nine times out of ten what you'll                                                               
find  is the  item for  one  reason or  another that's  not a  50                                                               
percent or  70 percent or  even a 25 percent  difference. Usually                                                               
it's not a fair presentation.  Prices don't vary that much." ASCI                                                               
took the top  ten and the worse ten and  conducted that research;                                                               
they "called  the vendors  and followed  up", and  "we determined                                                               
that  seven of  the  ten  in both  cases,  top  and bottom,  were                                                               
invalid."  Altman,  Rogers  & Co.  conducted  significantly  more                                                               
comparability research.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Hawkins  concluded that MCAC  was simply unfamiliar  with the                                                               
required work, and was unable,  from a procurement standpoint, to                                                               
distinguish what the differences were.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Hawkins did  not believe  there was  malice on  the part  of                                                               
MCAC.  There was  just "unfamiliarity  and perhaps  a failure  to                                                               
recognize  when the  credentials aren't  there and  maybe they're                                                               
participating  in  something that's  going  to  have a  very  bad                                                               
impact on both a local company and State policy."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green, in  consideration of  an impending  Senate Floor                                                               
Session,  stated   that  the  presentation  must   conclude.  She                                                               
appreciated the information. Committee  members should inform her                                                               
of any further desired action.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde determined  the Program to be working,  and in that                                                               
regard, asked that consideration be given to expanding it.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green agreed.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Lyda Green adjourned the meeting at 11:17:39 AM                                                                      

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